Just dreamin a new model sonex

[ihab]

You would probably want to power this new 4 place sonex with an O540 and IFR panel and I bet you'll be right up there at $100k.

Another thing in my view is that the RV-10, which has all these things, is the one to beat. It is so well established, and has a huge following, including a whole cottage industry of aftermarket parts. A new entrant has to be different from that in some significant way (or, preferably, more than one way). Otherwise buyers will want to just find a way to get their hands on an RV-10 and be done with it, rather than try something new and -- to them -- unproven.

Ihab

[robbwerks]

You would probably want to power this new 4 place sonex with an O540 and IFR panel and I bet you'll be right up there at $100k.

O-540'S are heavy, and I would expect a 4 place Sonex to have a gross weight of under 2200lbs. I think a IO/O-320/360 would be more fitting.

[Fastcapy]

If jessica is no longer at sonex, it was nice to meet her at osh 16, and wish her the best. I think pete buck is the main go to guy for engineering for sonex.

Pretty sure that at least on the professional level Pete Buck has cut ties with Sonex. Hence why they hired someone in-house. I also seem to recall at least 2 other engineers working there prior to Jessica. So Pete hasn't been doing much with them for some time.

[WaiexN143NM]

Hi all,
Yep got to agree with ihab, rv-10 is the one to beat. Thats why i think if sonex comes out with something new it will be something on the lower end , single place , low cost, low operating cost, motorgliderish? (Moni2) May attract alot of repeat offenders. Possibly a stretched 'B' model as a 2+2 , meaning the back for kids or enhanced baggage. I think it has to be something that isnt already out there. John's had many designs over the years, now the jet. Keep the ideas flowing. Will keep sonex busy during the cold winter.
Mike Beck, thanks for the update. I had seen pete in sonex gear, during the electric waiex forums a few years back, thats why i assumed he was still active with sonex professionally.
How about a twin engine? , an amphibious plane? , maybe a stol backcountry? Something electric?
WaiexN143NM
Michael

[ScottM-Sonex1629]

I don't have any vested interest in this thread/idea chain, but wanted to share my recent experiences.

Having completed the Sonex, my wife asked me what's next? And also "it's too bad the Sonex isn't big enough for anyone besides the cat to go with you?" In all fairness, I'm a bigger guy (6'-3", 235 lbs) and it leaves little room and weight for a passenger.

Looking at the available options, I was drawn to the RV-10, and was close to ordering the empennage kit, but the final cost of building and ownership was too much for me to bite off. Enter the other options already mentioned in this thread, and finally I landed with the Sling 4. I'm very impressed with their design, performance and easy of construction. My empennage kit arrived at the end of September and I could have easily finished it in October but I'm savoring the build and doing it at my hangar when time allows. In early December I got to fly the Sling 4 while in Torrance/ LA and was very happy with the size, handling and performance. The Rotax 914 UL (turbo) with the constant speed prop is a great combination. Fuel burn is under 6 gph. I am building mine to IFR requirements. A full airframe ballistic recovery chute is also an option.

If anyone is interested I have a blog going to follow my build progress (link in signature below).

[Fastcapy]

I look at some planes like the BD-4, which to me seems to be a 4-place tailwind, the sling 4 which is a 4 place version of the sling 2, and the Grumman Tiger, the 4 place version of the Yankee. I am sure there is other ones out there as well that were 2 place and stretched and make decent 4 place airplanes. So I am sure it could be done.

I honestly think a Sonex type 4 place would be a hit, especially if they could keep the kit price at or below 30k. I know I would look into one as I am about to pull the trigger on BD4C plans because the wife wants something for family trips.

No disrespect to Ihab but I absolutely wouldnt even consider it with that aft facing seating. I don't see that being a big selling point.

Granted it would probably be a bit different in looks than a Sonex but then again so is the jet (except for the yellow paint!)

[robbwerks]

I look at some planes like the BD-4, which to me seems to be a 4-place tailwind, the sling 4 which is a 4 place version of the sling 2, and the Grumman Tiger, the 4 place version of the Yankee. I am sure there is other ones out there as well that were 2 place and stretched and make decent 4 place airplanes. So I am sure it could be done.

Which only makes more sense that Sonex should do it. With their reputation, it should be a huge hit. Just look how many RV-10s are out there at $125k+ build cost, if Sonex could build a plane(kit) with a completed cost of $70k-$80k, I bet they would have a long waiting list, and probably would steal some customers from Vans, too.

[ihab]

No disrespect to Ihab but I absolutely wouldnt even consider it with that aft facing seating.

LOL! None meant or taken! :)

Ihab

[rizzz]

I have quite a different view on the 4 place Sonex proposal.

Much like when Porche decided to make the 4 seater 911 Carrera or the Cayenne SUV, as nice as these cars might be they are just not a Porche anymore.
Companies shouldn’t try to be everything for everybody, sometimes it’s better to focus on your expertise.

The Sonex line of aircraft are affordable, easy to build, economical and above all FUN aircraft. That’s what the company represents and I would much rather see them invest their time and effort into perfecting this concept further and further, as they have done recently with the development of the B-Model.

Don’t get me wrong, I would very much like to have a 4 seater aircraft in the hangar next to my Sonex for the odd times I want to go on a trip with more passengers/baggage, but I would also like to have a helicopter as well.

And for those really wanting an affordable 4 seater, there is a company that has one, let me quote this post from Peter Anson again,

There are probably several aircraft that meet the requirement of reasonably priced 4 place aircraft, but one that comes to mind is the Jabiru 430. From what I have heard they have pleasant flight characteristics, plenty of space, MTOW 700Kg (1543 pounds), cruises at 120 knots and the kit, which is a fairly quick build and includes basic instruments, propeller and 3300 engine sells in Australia for A$87,600 including 10% GST - that's about US$63,100 on current exchange rates. All you Jabiru haters are not going to like this, but Jabiru also have a far better safety record than anything else around, including the Sonex that I fly. If you don't want to fly behind a 3300, you can buy the kit without engine for A$66,700 (US$48,050) and fork out the extra money for a Rotax. See http://jabiru.net.au/kits/j430-kit
One Jabiru 230 builder (the 230 is just the 430 without the back seats) I spoke to told me the empty weight of his aircraft was 330 Kg (727 pounds) indicating a very useful payload.

Peter

The Jabiru company has quite a different mission from the Sonex “flying is fun” strategy and an affordable 4 seater seems to be a much better fit for theirs.
To each their own I say.

[SP1]

Hi all,
Yep got to agree with ihab, rv-10 is the one to beat. Thats why i think if sonex comes out with something new it will be something on the lower end , single place , low cost, low operating cost, motorgliderish? (Moni2) May attract alot of repeat offenders. Possibly a stretched 'B' model as a 2+2 , meaning the back for kids or enhanced baggage. I think it has to be something that isnt already out there. John's had many designs over the years, now the jet. Keep the ideas flowing. Will keep sonex busy during the cold winter.
Mike Beck, thanks for the update. I had seen pete in sonex gear, during the electric waiex forums a few years back, thats why i assumed he was still active with sonex professionally.
How about a twin engine? , an amphibious plane? , maybe a stol backcountry? Something electric?
WaiexN143NM
Michael

I would love it if Sonex brought back their electric motor efforts. While battery densities aren't quite high enough to do anything more than limited operations, a hybrid engine solution would be very intriguing. Sonex has expertise in both electric motors as well piston engines. They could make a big impact in this area.

One interesting concept I've seen recently is having a primarily electric a/c with a detachable gas powered range extender. You could fly on batteries when you just want to go up for a quick local area flight. When you need to do some cross country, you attach the range extender module and bring along a few gallons.