SonexBuilders.net

hi subnoise,
Welcome to the forum. Please dont take the responses as lecturing. The people that have responded
are respected, high sonex time experience , fly for a living, hold many ratings, and are instructors.
I’ve built a legacy sonex, and have another half built. The control forces are very light. We installed the dynon 2 axis autopilot in the flying sonex. If someone does much x-c in a sonex id reccommend at least roll control. It sure makes flying easier when looking at a sectional etc.
The biggest challenge is power to run all of the equipment. You may taxi out with your clearance, but then have to wait for an ifr release from the atc controlling agency due to other traffic. sitting in the run up area at idle and draining the batteries. Another thing to consider is back up equipment and redundency. Then comes pilot ifr currency, and aircraft checks (pitot -static) currency. It all adds up.
Let me tell you from experience, being an atc controller for 35 years, at towers and radar sectors along the california coastline, with the marine layer in the mornings. Its much better to just wait an hour, get a cup of coffee , breakfast , chat to fellow aviators in the fbo office. Wait for the marine layer to burn off , and then depart . I cant begin to tell you how many times i witnessed tradgedy. People got themselves into trouble very quickly.
The sonex is very nimble, not a heavy ifr platform. If you do build a waiex b welcome to the community.
Not reccommended for ifr. please wait for the cloud layer to burn off, if it doesnt, then stay another day at that swanky hotel with the pretty girls.

WaiexN143NM
Michael

Maybe don’t ignore the naysayers.....but take with your own grain of salt...

Equip per 91.205, add duplication and complication as desired.

Fly within your personal limis. By the time you get through your forty hours you’ll know.

My amp graph looks fine. Turn off the seat heat if you turn on the pitot heat. You don’t need pitot heat if the OAT is above 5c, regardless of how much moisture you encounter. If it’s less than 5c your playing with ice. That may not last long.

Don’t fly IFR on the autopilot until you have proven to yourself under the hood you can hand fly it if need be.

MGL just announced their own NAV unit, less than a grand. If you just want to pop through a layer and maybe have an ILS in your back pocket, skip the IFR GPS with its database requirements. Legal only needs a VOR. Debatably a handheld from Sporty’s meets the letter of the law.

Loops and rolls IMC are kinda fun, lumshovaks are pushing it....for most of you.

Enjoy it. It’s an airplane. It will do what you tell it.

Gordon

GordonTurner wrote:Maybe don’t ignore the naysayers.....but take with your own grain of salt...

Equip per 91.205, add duplication and complication as desired.

Fly within your personal limis. By the time you get through your forty hours you’ll know.

My amp graph looks fine. Turn off the seat heat if you turn on the pitot heat. You don’t need pitot heat if the OAT is above 5c, regardless of how much moisture you encounter. If it’s less than 5c your playing with ice. That may not last long.

Don’t fly IFR on the autopilot until you have proven to yourself under the hood you can hand fly it if need be.

MGL just announced their own NAV unit, less than a grand. If you just want to pop through a layer and maybe have an ILS in your back pocket, skip the IFR GPS with its database requirements. Legal only needs a VOR. Debatably a handheld from Sporty’s meets the letter of the law.

Loops and rolls IMC are kinda fun, lumshovaks are pushing it....for most of you.

Enjoy it. It’s an airplane. It will do what you tell it.

Gordon

No lumshevaks in IMC, check.

subnoize wrote:

JimP wrote:So, excellent point on available power. Will depend on engine and available alternators. Certainly want to be even more proactive about battery replacement before EOL also. Weight is also a consideration but with modern avionics I hope the difference is only a few pounds.

Expense may be the biggest hurdle. Do any of the common E-AB EFIS systems have full IFR capabilities? Or do you have to step up to certified systems?

So the MGL EFIS both Lite and regular are ILS ready, just add a Garmin radio nav and you are good to go.

From MGL: "The iEFIS can interface with the Garmin SL30 Nav/Comm and display active and standby navigation on the screen with a VOR/Localizer/Glideslope indicator."

The MGL auto-pilot will also fly the ILS approach and holding patterns for you. Just tweak the engine and talk on the radio for the most part.

In fact it is legal in emergency situations to use the bare MGL EFIS to do ILS. Which is why the auto pilot is so cool. Even then its a ticket out of potential harm.

If the power situation is so dire on the Sonex, why are they offering dual screens and auto pilots? That is odd. Those servo suck a lot of juice.

Right up until the Mgl horizon tumbled and the AP puts you into an unusual and bad angle. Then you die. I’d never trust a Sonex or mgl in mvfr or ifr. It was my plan to add a nav/com but after flying it, no way. And I definitely don’t want a plane that depends on AP to fly at night, mvfr, vfr on top, ifr or any other non day vfr condition. It’s why I went to a rv-9a instead of a 7a. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. It wasn’t designed for that. Save the company the lawsuit and harm to the brand. It’s a fun little vfr toy. Mvfr and ifr is never something to toy with.

Hi Subnoize,

I'm pretty sure the FAA is still concerned with aircraft and unintentional flight into MVFR / IFR conditions......... Do I plan to ever intentionally fly into a cloud as PIC? NO. Would I be slightly less stressed out if I did, but had some extra instrumentation? I don't want to find out, but I think so.

Boy Scout motto - Be Prepared.

Another nice thing to have on board - fire extinguishers. Priorities, right?
Your airplane. Your money. Your mission. Your decision.

Enjoy your build.

To probably flog a dead horse here:

1. Sonex at night is just fine, but like anything else for VFR night, we are talking hard VFR night. Done it multiple times, if the weather is good and your cockpit is set up properly, wonderful.
2. Deliberate, planned IFR in a Sonex is a act of madness (says the old 182 owner). That is no fault of the Sonex. Having said that, our Sonex is equipped so if we have an accidental cloud experience, unhappiness will not result and that was very deliberate. Haven't had to use it yet, but helpful just in case.

Cheers,

Andrew

I understand the question and am also interested in this topic (IFR in a Sonex/Waiex/Onex). I have been flying occasional IFR in Northern California (based at KSAC) with a Beech Debonair since 1980. 99% of this could be characterized as "light IFR", that is, departing up through an overcast to VFR conditions on top, descending through an undercast for an approach to landing, or flying through, in and out of, white puffy clouds (fun!). In this 38 years I only flew one IFR flight that I regretted, and in retrospect should have stayed on the ground, a particularly rough 90 mile night flight in rain in the clouds from the San Francisco Bay area to Sacramento. Bear in mind, IFR capable does not mean you can fly anywhere, any time. You have to avoid icing and t-storms for sure, and additionally avoid (don't fly in) weather you don't want to fly in. I avoid IFR flights which would put me in IMC (instrument mean conditions, in the clouds) for long periods of time. The point I am trying to make is, why not fly a Sonex/Waiex/Onex in "light IFR"? Particularly for departures and arrivals through an overcast. As to the neutral stability, my Debonair is like that in pitch when loaded near or at the aft center of gravity limit, I know about it and it is not a problem in IFR flying. Bear in mind any IFR pilot needs to maintain proficiency in stick and rudder skills and ATC procedures. I consider IFR flying to consist of three elements: 1) stick and rudder skills; 2) knowledge of IFR rules and regulations, ATC procedures, approaches/departures/holds, etc.; and 3) advanced weather knowledge. An autopilot is not needed to depart and climb up through up to a 3,000' thick overcast to VFR conditions, or fly an approach down through one. I would consider an autopilot to be needed needed if flying IMC for a longer period of time when navigation, frequency changes, managing the engine, etc. would be necessary. Of course each of us should only fly in weather conditions and flight rules, and in airplanes, we are comfortable with and proficient in.