Where do I begin!

Where do I begin!

Postby helifrek » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:12 pm

Hello all,
I would introduce myself on the introduction page but by the low thread count it seems I would have better luck posting in here instead. On with the introduction! My name is Brandon, I am a 28 year old helicopter mechanic (military) and also an ALSE (aviation life support equipment) technician. I have been wanting to fly since I was a child and I am done waiting! I thought the military would be the best way to become a pilot but with the path I am on it just seems more and more distant as I get deeper and deeper into my current job. Also, I want flying to be fun and enjoyable and I am afraid that if I were to become a military pilot that flying would loose its appeal.
I originally wanted to build a Mosquito XEL helicopter because it's a helicopter! and I love helicopters! But realistically, I wouldn't be able to carry a passenger and I wouldn't be able to travel very far in it, on the plus side it would be an easier and faster build and would not require a license to fly! But the wife says I have to get something she can ride along in!
I do have a few questions for you experts before I just start ordering stuff. I plan to order the Sonex tail sub kit first so I can get some actual hands on time building before I dive head first into a $15,000+ kit that I might not like building. If all goes together well and I enjoy building the tail kit then I will dive in head first and order the complete kit minus the tail! I also plan to use the Aerovee 2.1 engine on the Sonex.
Questions
1: I have a 2 car garage but no work tables, should I build one or buy one and how big should it be?
2: The plane might cost $30K to build but that about everything else? tools, sport pilot license, registering my aircraft etc.....
3: Will I be able to do all of my own maintenance and inspections?
4: How much red tape is there flying a LSA? I want to feel a free as possible!


I found a local Sonex pilot that is willing to help out once I am back in town, can't wait to "try it on" and see how it fits!

Thanks,
Brandon
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Where do I begin!

Postby Sonex1517 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:37 pm

Hi Brandon

Welcome to the forum, and it's great to see you asking good questions before you start the kit.

I began with the tail kit and it is a great way to get started. I would recommend that if at all possible you attend the Sonex workshop in Oshkosh, as it is a great introduction to the factory, the aircraft, and the process of building. If you can't make it, I understand. It is not feasible for everyone.

The tool list from Sonex is minimal, and in my opinion incomplete. I am sure others with more experience can join in here, as I do not have or keep a complete list. Things I know I needed include an angle drill, every cleco I could get my hands on, strap duplicators, lots of clamps of every possible style you can find (buy good ones - I broke several shoddy ones), and a really good air compressor.

I am finishing mine in a 2 car garage and am nearly out of room. I have both wings done and up in a cradle, and the fuselage is on its gear with the tail attached. We are currently building an AeroVee from the kit and I can tell you things are very tight.

If you build the airplane to the 51% rule you can do all your own maintenance and condition inspections. If you buy an experimental you did not build, you can do all the maintenance but not the condition inspections.

You may want to visit http://sonexfoundation.com and see some of what we have there in the form of articles and information.

I know others will join in on the conversation so welcome and ask a lot of questions!


Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Chicagoland
Tails and Wings complete - finishing fuselage.
N1517S reserved
Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Aero Estates (T25)
First flight 10/10/2015
325+ hours
Jabiru 3300 Gen 4
Prince P Tip
Taildragger
N1517S
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby Bryan Cotton » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:43 pm

Hey Brandon,
I used to work with helicopter mechanics and ALSE techs at Sikorsky. I was not a military pilot, nor did I fly for Sikorsky, but I did get my helicopter rating along the way. There is nothing more fun in aviation! But if you look at fun per unit dollar, helicopters come in dead last. The Sonex (or Waiex if you are really cool) is way better. I spent some time in fatigue test at Sikorsky, and that scared me away from homebuilt helicopters even more than the finances. Even if you do pursue helicopters someday, it is much cheaper to do an add on than go RW from scratch.

The Sonex is not your only choice, but it is a good one.

Welcome to the forum!
Bryan Cotton
Poplar Grove, IL C77
Waiex 191 N191YX
Taildragger, Aerovee, acro ailerons
dual sticks with sport trainer controls
Prebuilt spars and machined angle kit
Year 2 flying and approaching 200 hours December 23
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby helifrek » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:10 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome guys!

Robbie: I edited the tool list out of my original post because I found the sonex recommended tool list right after I posted! thanks for the input though, I know the airframe shop has every possible tool I could need but I want to limit my borrowing of tools! if it is something I won't need very often I am sure I could just borrow it.
What size air compressor would be the best? I do own a tabletop band saw but that is pretty much it for tools! I don't do a lot of projects around my house.
I am afraid that I will not be able to visit the builders workshop anytime soon due to work, at least I will have tons of experienced airframe and machine shop guys if I get stuck or have questions.

Bryan:
The mosquito is a pretty awesome homebuilt helicopter. The thing I like most is that the guy that invented it and the guys that build them actually fly them all the time! I went to the mosquito workshop in Trenton FL last weekend and looked at them close up and WOW! they are built very solid and there are over 350 flying worldwide, they have a very good safety record. As with any aircraft, it is only as safe as the pilot flying it.
I honestly do like the look of the Waiex a little more than the Sonex, I have always thought V-tails look very cool but I am hesitant because I have never flown one before. ( I only have a few hours under my belt, nothing formal).

That leads me to a couple more questions!
I have no formal flight training, just what I could get tagging along with pilots at my local airport when I was younger which would only add up to a couple of hours. I am anxious to get in the air (I know it will be a few years to build the Sonex) and I could go ahead and get my sport pilot license but then I will need a refresher before I try to fly my aircraft once it is done. would it be better to wait until I am almost finished with my build before I get my sport pilots license?
Also, at what point in the build should start worrying about all the legal stuff like getting your airworthiness inspections and reserving your N number?

Thanks again guys, can't wait to start!
Brandon
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby fastj22 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:28 pm

helifrek wrote: Questions
1: I have a 2 car garage but no work tables, should I build one or buy one and how big should it be?
2: The plane might cost $30K to build but that about everything else? tools, sport pilot license, registering my aircraft etc.....
3: Will I be able to do all of my own maintenance and inspections?
4: How much red tape is there flying a LSA? I want to feel a free as possible!


1) Build one. Use two saw horses and an interior door your wife wanted replaced anyways. When that isn't enough, replace another door in the house. Luan interior doors are great build platforms. They are cheap, flat, square and hold clecos well. When you get too many holes in them, flip it over. Many build in one bay of their garage so your wife can park her car in the other bay.
2) You can keep the cost down to $30k if you keep your eye off the candy at your favorite aviation webstore. Sport Pilot will run you around $5000 if you have to rent the plane. Minimum tools will be a $40 rivet puller, $100 band saw, $100 cordless drill, $50 bench grinder with $75 deburr wheel. You will collect more. Probably $200 in various hand tools.
3) Yes, if you build 51% of your plane and convince the FAA as such. Even if you buy a built plane, you can do all your own maintenance and upgrades, just no inspections.
4) The LSA plane has the same red tape as any other single engine land plane. However, Sport Pilot license doesn't require the medical which some Private Pilots find bothersome. Once my plane was ready, I let my medical expire and fly Sport Pilot regs. So I guess thats as free as you can get unless you fly Part 103 flying lawn furniture.

BTW, did I mention my hangar mate is selling his Jab powered Sonex for $36k?

John Gillis
SEL Private, Comm Glider, Tow pilot (Pawnee Driver)
Waiex N116YX, Jabiru 3300, Tail dragger,
First flight, 3/16/2013. 403 hours and climbing.
Home: CO15. KOSH x 5
Flying a B-Model Conversion (Super Bee Baby!)
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby fastj22 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:35 pm

helifrek wrote:Thanks for the warm welcome guys!

That leads me to a couple more questions!
I have no formal flight training, just what I could get tagging along with pilots at my local airport when I was younger which would only add up to a couple of hours. I am anxious to get in the air (I know it will be a few years to build the Sonex) and I could go ahead and get my sport pilot license but then I will need a refresher before I try to fly my aircraft once it is done. would it be better to wait until I am almost finished with my build before I get my sport pilots license?
Also, at what point in the build should start worrying about all the legal stuff like getting your airworthiness inspections and reserving your N number?

Thanks again guys, can't wait to start!
Brandon

Get your pilots license first. I got the same bug and was told by a very wise builder to buy a cheap Cessna 150 and put 100 hours on it. If I still liked flying, then build. Your dream of flying might just be something that you never envisioned it would be.

I sold the C150 to fund the project and joined a flying club to stay current during the build. When I found myself flying more than building and I quit the club. Sonex now offers a transition training course in their company plane. So when you are ready for first flight, just head out to OSH for a weekend and get her done.

John Gillis
SEL Private, Comm Glider, Tow pilot (Pawnee Driver)
Waiex N116YX, Jabiru 3300, Tail dragger,
First flight, 3/16/2013. 403 hours and climbing.
Home: CO15. KOSH x 5
Flying a B-Model Conversion (Super Bee Baby!)
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby fastj22 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:01 pm

Its a Y tail. And its waY cool!
Last edited by fastj22 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

John Gillis
SEL Private, Comm Glider, Tow pilot (Pawnee Driver)
Waiex N116YX, Jabiru 3300, Tail dragger,
First flight, 3/16/2013. 403 hours and climbing.
Home: CO15. KOSH x 5
Flying a B-Model Conversion (Super Bee Baby!)
User avatar
fastj22
 
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:56 pm
Location: Mile High

Re: Where do I begin!

Postby Bryan Cotton » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:23 pm

I would not wait to learn to fly. Getting the ticket is its own hurdle, and own reward. Currency is like polishing - it is never done. I haven't flown in close to 9 months now.

I have an old sears 2 HP, 220 volt, 2 cylinder, 20 gallon oil lubed compressor. I regard it as the ultimate homebuilder/homeowner machine. You don't need a monster. A smaller one would do, especially for riveting. Don't go crazy small.
Bryan Cotton
Poplar Grove, IL C77
Waiex 191 N191YX
Taildragger, Aerovee, acro ailerons
dual sticks with sport trainer controls
Prebuilt spars and machined angle kit
Year 2 flying and approaching 200 hours December 23
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Posts: 4957
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:54 pm
Location: C77

Re: Where do I begin!

Postby GordonTurner » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:27 am

Hi Brandon

I'm midway or so into my Waiex project. Sounds like you live in or around Bridgeport, I'm in Rocky Point on Long Island, just east of the Port Jefferson end of the ferry. Be happy to help you get started or show you my project if you're interested.

Whatever you decide, welcome to the site,

Gordon Turner.
Waiex 158 New York. N88YX registered.
3.0 Liter Corvair built, run, and installed.
Garmin panel, Shorai LiFePo batteries.
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby helifrek » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:59 am

Thanks again for all the replies.
Two saw horses and a door sound like a quick and easy building table! will also be easy to move around if needed. I don't think the wife would have a problem with me taking up the whole garage, I have the smaller car and she drives an SUV that won't fit in the garage.
I will keep an eye out around flea markets, craigslist and yard sales for some of the tools. Got my band saw for $25 at a yard sale, very handy to have around the house.
I apprieciate the offer of the used plane, and if I had the money upfront I am sure I would jump on it. One of the reasons I want to build it myself is that I can go at my own pace and spend a "little" at a time.
I am live in Clarksville TN. I am doing some training in Alabama right now and won't be home for a few more weeks.

Thanks again everyone,
Brandon
Last edited by helifrek on Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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