Where do I begin!

Re: Where do I begin!

Postby sonex1374 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:34 am

Hi Brandon.

Like you, I'm military and have to balance the demands of the Army with the goals of flying and family. The Sonex is a great way to keep things affordable. I think the first thing you want to ask yourself is whether you want to build to experience the building process, or simply to fly cheap. If you're looking to fly cheap, then why not jump right in with an inexpensive used plane and get right to it. Too many builders build to save money then stall out (thankfully far fewer Sonex builders seem to fall in this category).

Having said that, building your own airplane is a fantastic experience, and most builders love it. Plus you'll be legally allowed and technically competent to maintain it without much help.

I would recommend you get your license first. This will fuel the fire and keep you motivated during your build. I've seen many people like you start off with big dreams only to have them get overwhelmed and then fizzle out on everything. Break it down into discrete steps and you'll stay on track better.

Have a look at my website. I go through my thought process as I prepared to build and then documents the construction on the plane. There's also lots of good references and stuff in there that I've collected along the way.

www.sonex604.com

By the way, where are you stationed?

Jeff
(Ft Carson)
Jeff Shultz
Sonex TD, 3300, AeroInjector
Kansas City, MO
http://www.sonex604.com
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby vigilant104 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:45 am

Brandon,
Some thoughts:
Consider getting your license as a separate issue from your plane building. As you may know, most people recommend you do that when you have the resources (time, money) to do your flying at a fairly compressed pace (flying a couple times a week). With TA and the Post 9/11 GI bill, you probably can have a lot of help with the costs (that's what I did--PM me if you'd like to know more on that). The Sonex or Waiex is a fine plane for a low-time pilot, and they aren't fragile, but to you'll want beat up some flight school's sturdy Cessna 152 while you are getting the hang of landing, etc.

Costs and building: You are right that you can spread out your costs by building, but first you need to determine that you really enjoy building. You can buy a completed airplane for about what you'd spend in building one, so you need to really want to build for its own sake. Other ways to cut costs are to go in with somebody else in buying and hangaring the airplane. The hourly cost of operating these planes is low, so the key to budget flying is to minimize the fixed costs (hangar, insurance, original purchase amortization).

If you are still on active duty, it can be rough taking your plane with you (and finding a place to keep it) every time you PCS - but guys do it.

The Sonex designs are great and a lot of fun. You are practically next door, so be sure to attend the American Sonex Association fly-in in Crossville TN Oct 10 and Oct 11. There you can see the world's largest collection of Sonexes, talk with builders, see different configurations, maybe get a flight, etc.

Welcome to the board.
Mark Waldron
Sonex 1230 (Builder: Jay Gibbs)
Aerovee, Trigear
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby helifrek » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:34 pm

Some really good information here!
Jeff, I watched your 30+ min video on youtube last night of your 604 build and I was blown away! it is amazing what you can do with a bunch of sheet metal and your own two hands! I would like to build the plane myself for a couple of reasons. Mainly I want to be as familiar with the aircraft as possible, I want to know this thing inside and out if I am going to trust it with my life. I want to know that it is put together properly without cutting any corners, knowing that I secured every rivet and torqued every nut properly. Secondly I would like to be able to perform all of my own inspections and do all of my own work on the plane, if I build it myself I would have the experience I need to perform the maintenance as well as all of the tools.

I will jump right into getting my license first, I don't care to fly over 10,000 ft and I do not want to fly at night so I just want to get sport pilot license but if the Army will help pay for a full PP license I guess I can't say no!
I wish I could attend the fly-in but I will be "out of town" so to speak for the entire month of October but will be back in November.
Great thing about my unit is that I really don't have to worry about PCS'ing anytime soon and I cannot be DA selected, I should be able to stay put for the next 10 years or so!
Gotta get back to class!

Mark, I would like more info about TA and the post 9/11 GI bill, I would PM you but I don't have time right now. my e-mail is helifrek(at)aol.com if you want to shoot me an e-mail.
Thanks again guys.

Brandon
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby radfordc » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:41 pm

Yes, you can build a Sonex in two years for $30K...if you are diligent. You will need about 3-6 months and 5K for a Sport Pilot rating.

OR....you can buy my Sonex for $23K, use the money saved to get your ticket, and still have enough left over to get the wife a new diamond necklace for being so good to you!
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby helifrek » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:09 pm

$23K! man that is a good deal :) I don't know, it would take a lot of convincing for me to buy used..... how much does an annual inspection run :)
I am not completely against buying a used sonex or waiex, it would get me in the air much fast and possibly save me some money but I have a hard time trusting my life to an aircraft that someone else built in their garage! I would want every inch of it inspected beforehand and the engine overhauled and inspected. Then again I have never owned or built an aircraft besides rc (by the way, nice collection Jeff!). If any of you guys were going to buy a used aircraft what questions would you ask yourself? maybe this is a better route for me?
I do work 5 days a week and go on multiple trips throughout the year lasting anywhere from 1 to 3 months.... my building time would probably be fairly limited and it might take me much longer to build a Sonex than I would like. what do you guys think?
radfordc, do you have more information on your Sonex? $23,000 does leave a lot of money left over....
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby radfordc » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:31 pm

helifrek wrote:$23K! man that is a good deal :) I have a hard time trusting my life to an aircraft that someone else built in their garage! I would want every inch of it inspected beforehand and the engine overhauled and inspected.


Do you really think that an airplane I have flown for 400 hours over the last 8 years is suddenly going to fall out of the sky when you fly it?
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby sonex1649 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:38 pm

People just don't understand how much pride and time we put into things
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby helifrek » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:03 pm

I apologize, that came off totally wrong! I wasn't trying to imply that your airplane is unsafe or that it would fall out of the sky. I was speaking in general terms. I didn't mean to come off disrespectful in anyway.

I do understand that you guys have put thousands of hours into your aircraft and that you are putting your own lives in your hands when you're building these aircraft. Not only building time but also fine tuning and adjusting as well.

I just personally feel slightly uncomfortable buying a used aircraft, not that I am totally against it. To make myself more comfortable I would want it inspected very well, and the engine rebuilt and inspected and have it test flown etc.... I know this is probably a little overboard but put yourself into my shoes! I am not a pilot and I have never owned a plane. I have been working on helicopters for the past 6 years and the number one thing on my mind is safety! I know all to well what an improperly tightened bolt can do! And when you have something holding you in the air made up of thousands of indivual parts all put together by one individual It does make you just a little nervous! or at least it makes me a little nervous. Even flying on military aircraft I still get nervous! It takes a college degree to break an aircraft and a GED to fix one!

I do like the idea of saving myself literally years of building though! It would get me in the air way faster and make becoming a pilot and owning a plane much less of a hassle.

If any of you were to buy a used plane what questions would you ask and what concerns would you have?
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby radfordc » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:44 pm

helifrek wrote:I just personally feel slightly uncomfortable buying a used aircraft, not that I am totally against it. To make myself more comfortable I would want it inspected very well, and the engine rebuilt and inspected and have it test flown etc.... I know this is probably a little overboard but put yourself into my shoes! I am not a pilot and I have never owned a plane. I have been working on helicopters for the past 6 years and the number one thing on my mind is safety! I know all to well what an improperly tightened bolt can do! And when you have something holding you in the air made up of thousands of indivual parts all put together by one individual It does make you just a little nervous! or at least it makes me a little nervous. Even flying on military aircraft I still get nervous! It takes a college degree to break an aircraft and a GED to fix one!


No apology needed...I understand that you don't know what you don't know. My personal feeling is that the absolute worst thing you can do is tear down and overhaul an engine that is running well with no signs of trouble. BTW, Mike Busch feels the same way... http://www.sportaviationonline.org/spor ... 01002#pg90

The first question you ask someone who is selling an airplane is, "will you fly in it with me?" If the answer is no start asking lots more questions.

More info on my plane here: viewtopic.php?f=13&p=8708#p8708
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Re: Where do I begin!

Postby radfordc » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:47 pm

helifrek wrote: how much does an annual inspection run :)


The most I have paid is $350. The least is zero...it's nice to have friends who are A&P's.
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