New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby invflatspin » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:39 am

Short version: PPL with comm, inst. Owned a bunch of diff planes in the past. Been flying since 1975, some weird stuff too. Want something smaller, and less fuel burn, lite acro maybe. I can buy just about any modest SE/ME plane, but my use case doesn't justify a big budget. Current is a 1947 Beech 35 which is heavily modified.

Longer: Grew up in Socal. There was a semi-crazy guy near us with a few acres, and he had a short strip. He flew a Cub or something, and had a Bell 47, couple other planes tied up in the rafters of the hangar. Landed over our house sometimes. I mounted a 3HP Briggs on my Flexi, and since I didn't want to mess with clutches, chains, drive sprockets, I mounted it on a wood pedestal(also my backrest) with the shaft facing backwards, and proceeded to carve myself a prop. I was maybe 10 or 11. My dad had regular hand tools, and a few power tools. I used a rasp mostly, with some finish by file, sander, etc. First one was way, way too much pitch, would barely move at full throttle, and shook like the dickens! I tried to flatten it out, but it was no use, I started over. After 5 tries, I got a good one, and jeez, that thing would move! Sitting on a Flexi, about 5" off the ground, with the prop wailing behind me, and only front toe brakes on the steering handles was truly Mr Toads Wild Ride. anyway - I drove it down to the crazy guys airfield, and he looked at and asked if he could drive it. Sure, I said, and he went up and down the road a few times, almost tipped over(it was tricky steering). I got up the courage to say 'hey, you took mine out, can we take yours out?' So - he took me over to the helicopter and showed me how everything worked. I never knew they had variable pitch on the tail rotor, it was obvious once I saw it. He fired up the Bell 47, and I was expecting the Cub to ride in. We took off, and he said 'your plane!' showed me where to put my hands, and what the gauges meant, and I flew it just fine. Still wobbly on the tail anti-torque but he told me when we landed that I had a natural gift for machinery and handling things. I - was - hooked! Before we leave the Flexi story, I did try to mount some stubby wings on it, made from thin plywood, and a plywood sandwich spar. I put it right under my seat, and had a moveable stick for the front canard. I didn't know what a canard was, but I knew I had to get the nose up somehow. No rudders(why?). I finally got it fast enough for the canard to lift the nose, and flipped it(wind under the wood frame) backward. Destroyed the prop, left wing, and gave me a nice scar on my left arm.

Being in SoCal, of course the next thing was hang gliders. Torry Pines glider port was in operation back then, and of course - the Rogallo wing guys were testing and flying out there, much to the chagrin of the sailplanes. Dad took me out there sometimes to watch them, and he would sit in his nylon folding chair, reading and smoking, sipping a beer while I chased the gliders and sailplanes around. It took me almost a year to convince a guy to let me try his hang glider out, but not at Torry Pines. We went to a gentle mountain near Santee, and I hauled it up the hill, set it up, waited for a breeze and I was off. I only weighed a few pounds, so lift was pretty impressive. My first flight was straight down, maybe 30' up, and a pretty good landing. The Rogallo's didn't have very good L/D, but that wasn't a bad thing for beginners. I still messed with planes as much as I could, where I could but also had a thing for cars, boats, bikes, etc. Typical gear-head. At 13, my dad lost his job, and started a business of his own. Since I was handy with tools, and he started a tire sales shop, I was pressed into service as a tire changer after school, and Sat. No pay, and no time, so my interest in flying sort of languished. Took a few rides with the crazy guy, and learned a ton about aeronautics.

Finally at 17, I'd had enough of slaving over a tire retreat machine, and joined the Army. The Army was winding down from Vietnam, and they had riffed a bunch of helicopter pilots. Before I joined, I asked about flight school, but the recruiter said I had to be 18 min on enlistment for flight school, and there was a real hard test to qualify. He explained the FAST(flight aptitude skills test). I told him I would study up and take the test. After a couple weeks study, I took the test and basically aced it. My dad wouldn't sign for early enlistment, so the recruiter fudged my age, and I went in as a helicopter pilot cadet trainee. I think I got the most demerits of any candidate ever. But - since I could fly the skids off anyone else in class, they kept me in. Sadly, flying helicopters for the Army was not what I was expecting. I was not a good soldier, by a long shot, but I did the job, got the hang of Army life, and made it out in one piece. My only excitement was an auto with the trans chips light on to some bean field in central TX. They came out with a giant crane, and a big trailer and hauled it away. Turned out, the trans shed a bearing in the reduction drive, and if I hadn't landed right then, it was minutes from seizing. Lucky beats good any day.

Once I got out, and got my civ ticket, I went back to SoCal, bought a Citabria, and had it on leaseback. I towed gliders over the beach, Qualcomm stadium, and around downtown for a while. I was towing down past Torry Pines one day, going south, and looking at the cookies down on the beach when I almost hit a Cessna towing a banner the other direction. Doh... Learned some acro in the Citabria, and then I started building a KR2. Now, if you know what a KR2 is, you'll understand why I sold it before flying anywhere. It was not a plane to mess with. Had a HAPI engine, and I taxied it a few times, but I finally traded for a Benson B-8M(yes, really) with the two stroke drone engine on it. Flew that a few times, but it wasn't what I hoped. I almost got run over by a borate bomber out of Ramona one summer day. It was a quirky flyer, and although I practiced engine outs, I could never get to the point where I felt like I was master of the plane. So I sold it to a guy in FL, and delivered it over summer college break. I flew with the crazy guy a few times too. He had his Cub, and put together a Stinson, he also had a guy renting space that had a Jodel, and I flew them all. Also finally got some twin time in a 310, and later in an Apache. I was offered flight time to deliver Pipers from FL to SoCal, and I did that a few times, but it was b-o-r-i-n-g. After that, I sold the Citabria, and bought my first house with the money I made on those two sales.

I was non-flying except for some rides with my buddy who had a Grumman Cheetah once in a while. Out to Catalina, to AZ, Grand Canyon, took my GF to Vegas a few times. My buddy and I went up to Marysville for a meet, and one of the Grumman pilots almost killed himself failing to do a wing-over. He piled it into a bunch of rocks, and we got him to a hospital just barely in time. Once I got into my Jr year in college, I was pretty much done with flying for almost 30 years. FF to 2004. My kids were set, wife was happy with the home, retirement pretty well sorted, so I started looking for a plane again. I heard all the tails about the tails falling off the Bonanza. It was big news back in the 80s when Av Consumer raked them over the coals. But - the performance compared to anything else in the price range was dramatically better. Sure, I could burn less fuel in a Mooney, but I just didn't like flying them, and found a B35 in SoCal that hit all my buttons. I bought the hell out of it.

What a rocket ship! Picked it up early morning from Zamperini on a cool March day. With one guy, and full fuel(40 gal) it would go almost straight up! or so it felt. I was sooooo happy with as Tim Taylor would say 'more power, eerrgghrhghrhgggg'. Had a well built 225HP engine, and the big 88" electric prop. I turned east, and got up above 10k, and it was going nearly 200MPH! Modest tailwind, but jeez that thing was a goer. I clocked it on a triangle course one day and it was literally doing 189MPH average. I was having great fun. Took the fam to visit mom in AZ, went to mtns, went to Grand Canyon again, used it for business once in a while, it was the perfect plane for about 5 years. Then, one cold day in NE, I had flown in through some drizzle rain, and landed, then took off well below freezing, and the darn crankcase vent was plugged with ice. It blew out the front seal, and also another seal in the acc case. I had oil gushing out all over, and couldn't see spit. So, I put it down in a field, and tore up the belly. The ins bought it, and it went to the great beyond. I flew a couple EXP planes, but the wife was much more comfy in the Bo. So - I bought another. Then I bought a Grumman Traveler, then I bought a Cessna 175, because everyone needs three planes, right? I got the 175 for $14,000, and had to ferry it home 360 miles. It was a noisy, bumpy, sideways flyer. I think it was wacky out of rig. Fixed a dozen things, put some decent radios in, new brakes and tires, and sold it for $22k. Sold the Grumman to a place in IN, and sold the Bo to a guy in E TX. A few months ago, I found a well modified 35 Bo from 1947. Has the 225HP, extended wing tips, alum truss spar section, big elec prop, and one piece windscreen. Another fast plane, but now I fly at 2100 @ 20" burning 9GPH, and settle for 150-155MPH.

I fly in some rugged country in NM, CO, TX, AZ. the Bo takes it all without complaint, but I don't use the back seats at all, and it's pretty hard to support the vintage plane. It's down right now for gear switch and instrument problems. So - here I find myself. I took a ride in a Sonerai many years ago and I liked the way it flew, but my wife isn't going to live with tandem seating. I have little or no fear of a well built VW engine. I built a dozen of them for sand dunes back in the 80s. If you want to try to find a video from back then, you can see me flying my blue Rogallo hang glider being towed by a dune buggy. It's on the Let's Dune It! series, back before there were cell phone cameras and youtube. Probably going to go with a Sonex, or Waiex, and put the turbo kit on for getting in and out of high elevation.

It's been a long, strange trip. Hope to get some more info, learn about the Sonex, and maybe take a ride or two before picking one up.
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Re: New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby Ray Krause » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:56 pm

I have a Waiex with a brand new Camit 3300, serial #0099 with 40 hrs on the engine and 550 on the air frame. Beautiful, nice flying plane. Located in Colusa, CA O08. Lost my vision to where I can no longer fly. I might consider selling it?

Contact me at raykrause@frontiernet.net
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Re: New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby DCASonex » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:42 am

Note to New Guy: From your history, doubt if you would be happy with performance of a VW engine. Would give very serious consideration to Ray's offer to sell his Waiex with new CAMit 3300 even though CAMit is out of business. CAMit reported their 3300 engines dyno testing at 127 HP. More HP = more fun.
David A. Sonex TD, CAMit 3300 #0004
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Re: New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby invflatspin » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:30 pm

As mentioned my plan is for a turbo Aerovee, or I could do with a Jab 3300 type, but I'm concerned about the reliability with the Jab, having heard some things related to various failure modes. If Camit is out of business, does that mean that Jab engines are no longer supported at all, or just in US, or is there support for the Jab engines going forward? I don't want to get stuck with a unicorn engine issue. Currently supporting the Conti E series requires me to be a E-225 specialist, although many parts cross over from the O-470, they don't really crossover for FAA blessing. Frrex; the jugs on the E-225 are in many cases interchangeable with the O-470 jugs, but the mfg, and FAA don't see it that way.
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New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby caveman370 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:53 pm

If you have any reservations about the Jab, call Pete at Jabiru USA in Tennessee. He should be able to tell where they stand on camit and Jabs in general
I like my 3300 ( solid lifters)


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Re: New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby fastj22 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:26 pm

I know of a really sweet Waiex with late Jabiru solid lifter (like mine) that is available. PM me if you are interested. No, its not my plane, but probably one of the nicest Waiexes I've seen.

John Gillis
SEL Private, Comm Glider, Tow pilot (Pawnee Driver)
Waiex N116YX, Jabiru 3300, Tail dragger,
First flight, 3/16/2013. 403 hours and climbing.
Home: CO15. KOSH x 5
Flying a B-Model Conversion (Super Bee Baby!)
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Re: New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby invflatspin » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:14 pm

PM sent. Always interested in a good Sonex.

Here's what I'm thinking, if I can find a 3300 engine plane with the good motor for a nice price, I'll do that. If I find a Aerovee product I'd take the heads, jugs off, redo the shims for 7:1 C/R, and buy the turbo setup. Then, I would like to add a wastegate needle vent bypass to have a bit of manual control of the Wastegate to keep it pressurized at higher altitudes.
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Re: New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby NWade » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:57 pm

Welcome to the boards! Its a small world... I grew up north of Palomar airport and east of Oceanside airport in the 1980's. My Sonex is about to fly in the next month or two, and has an Aerovee Turbo on the front that I built earlier this summer.

invflatspin wrote:Then, I would like to add a wastegate needle vent bypass to have a bit of manual control of the Wastegate to keep it pressurized at higher altitudes.


Much of your early posts have been fine and sensible. But I'd like to strongly caution you against this kind of change to the wastegate system. From what I've seen, the Aerovee Turbo wastegate does not need any "help" to stay closed at higher altitudes. There have been some teething problems with Turbos and a few accidents as a result of seized turbos. The evidence suggests that the engine system is being pushed about as hard as you want, with the Aerovee "pull-through" intake system of the air-fuel mixture being compressed inside the turbo (i.e. it is NOT fuel-injected downstream of the turbo). Running higher boost in a thinner atmosphere (up at cruise altitude) means less cooling air for the engine, and that may exacerbate any remaining issues with oil overheating/coking in the turbo. Additionally, the engine is burning 7+ GPH at full throttle and you only have a 16 gallon tank. Running at higher throttle settings during cruise cuts ~45 minutes off of your available flight time, which already isn't that long (2.5 - 3 hours). Finally, what's the benefit to getting an extra ~10mph in cruise? The airplane's VNE is 197mph, so at best you're getting to your destination 5% to 10% quicker. On a two-hour flight that's a ~10 minute time savings in exchange for more engine wear and an extra $20-$30 in gas you've burned.

Just some things to think about. Good luck in your hunt!

--Noel
Sonex #1339
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Re: New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby invflatspin » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:41 am

Noel, I understand the concerns, but you make some assumptions that aren't warranted. I want to go high(14-16k') to get up over the mtns. My two destinations are Salida CO, and Taos NM, from the E, which means going over big rocks.

As mentioned, I run my Bo at ~50% power of 2100 @ 20"Hg. Planning to run the Sonex the same. I've done a fair amount of flying at higher elevations, and I'm not typically going up there to burn along at high power. I know, I'm an anachronism when it comes to Bo owners. They due tend to run all knobs forward. Having said that, I have never run a turbo Sonex, and of course, I can't make any evaluations until I get up there and see what I see. As I read in the turbo instructions, the engine is limited to absolute pressure of 40"Hg by the wastegate, and that is limited to a few minutes. OTOH, when up at altitude it is usually wise to run closer to 30"Hg, and if the turbo will keep the upper deck pressure at 30" @ 14,000' I certainly won't need to mess with it.

As for cooling, nature has provided a nice effect with the general reduction in temp as altitude increases. I rely on that flying in hot states now and will have CHT and TIT, oil temp gauges to insure things don't cook.
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Re: New guy, looking for a Sonex, Waiex TW

Postby sonex892. » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:09 am

invflatspin wrote:. So - here I find myself. I took a ride in a Sonerai many years ago and I liked the way it flew, but my wife isn't going to live with tandem seating.

If you like the way a Sonerai flew you wont be disappointed in a Sonex. I have built and flown both a Sonerai and Sonex. They both handle pretty much the same. The Sonex is just a much nicer plane with a passenger. The forward visibility in the Sonerai with a larger passenger up front, is not real flash for the pilot, probably pretty much like the Spirit of St Louis.
Steve
Lazair kit 1981 sold
Sonerai 2LS plansbuilt 2003 sold
Sonex kit 2010
Sonerai 2LS project rotax 912
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